Double Your Pricing // Paul Gardner of Sign Enterprise
Tue Jan 23rd 2024/68 mins 40 secs
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In this episode we sit down with Paul Gardner, the entrepreneurial force behind Sign Enterprise. With over two decades in the sign industry, Paul shares his journey from a young enthusiast in vinyl graphics to a successful owner of multiple sign companies. His insights into business growth, innovative strategies, and maintaining work-life balance are invaluable for anyone in the industry.
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This episode is sponsored by:
GCI Digital Imaging - Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for their exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics. Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.
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Key Points Discussed:
- Paul's Origin Story: Starting as a teenager fascinated by vinyl graphics, Paul's early experiences in the sign business laid the foundation for his future entrepreneurial ventures. His purchase of a local sign shop marked the beginning of his journey in business ownership.
- Growth and Acquisition: Paul discusses his strategy of acquiring struggling sign businesses, transforming them by implementing new systems, focusing on employee quality, and enhancing operational efficiency.
- Pricing Strategies: A pivotal shift in Paul's business approach was understanding the value of his service and adjusting his pricing model. He emphasizes the importance of not basing prices solely on industry averages but on the value delivered to clients.
- Diversification of Ventures: Paul shares insights into how his ventures in landscape lighting, Christmas light installations, and other industries complement his sign business. He highlights how ideas from different sectors can revolutionize traditional business models in the sign industry.
- Challenges and Solutions: Paul candidly discusses various challenges, such as change orders and unforeseen job complexities. He stresses the significance of clear communication and contractual agreements to manage client expectations and maintain profitability.
- Business Management and Work-Life Balance: Paul talks about the importance of building a business that can operate independently of the owner, allowing for a better work-life balance and opportunities for further growth.
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In this episode...
00:00 Intro
00:38 Sponsor
01:33 Catching up
04:02 Welcoming Paul Gardner
04:40 Paul's backstory in the sign business
10:50 Growth and acquisitions in Sign Enterprise
13:10 Innovations in pricing strategies
15:30 Diversification into related ventures
19:33 Overcoming challenges in sign installation
25:40 Insights into effective business management
28:40 Communication strategies for client satisfaction
38:26 Balancing work and personal life
40:32 Paul's approach to employee training and retention
43:30 Leveraging cross-industry ideas
47:10 Future plans for Sign Enterprise
51:30 Paul's perspective on emerging technologies in the industry
55:30 Advice for upcoming entrepreneurs in the sign industry
57:45 Closing thoughts and future directions for the podcast
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Ready to systemize and scale your shop?
Start by creating your free account on the Better Sign Shop platform at https://my.bettersignshop.com/
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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.
Interested in being a guest on the show or have questions for our team? Reach out to us at hey@bettersignshop.com.
##-##
This episode is sponsored by:
GCI Digital Imaging - Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for their exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics. Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.
##-##
Key Points Discussed:
- Paul's Origin Story: Starting as a teenager fascinated by vinyl graphics, Paul's early experiences in the sign business laid the foundation for his future entrepreneurial ventures. His purchase of a local sign shop marked the beginning of his journey in business ownership.
- Growth and Acquisition: Paul discusses his strategy of acquiring struggling sign businesses, transforming them by implementing new systems, focusing on employee quality, and enhancing operational efficiency.
- Pricing Strategies: A pivotal shift in Paul's business approach was understanding the value of his service and adjusting his pricing model. He emphasizes the importance of not basing prices solely on industry averages but on the value delivered to clients.
- Diversification of Ventures: Paul shares insights into how his ventures in landscape lighting, Christmas light installations, and other industries complement his sign business. He highlights how ideas from different sectors can revolutionize traditional business models in the sign industry.
- Challenges and Solutions: Paul candidly discusses various challenges, such as change orders and unforeseen job complexities. He stresses the significance of clear communication and contractual agreements to manage client expectations and maintain profitability.
- Business Management and Work-Life Balance: Paul talks about the importance of building a business that can operate independently of the owner, allowing for a better work-life balance and opportunities for further growth.
##-##
In this episode...
00:00 Intro
00:38 Sponsor
01:33 Catching up
04:02 Welcoming Paul Gardner
04:40 Paul's backstory in the sign business
10:50 Growth and acquisitions in Sign Enterprise
13:10 Innovations in pricing strategies
15:30 Diversification into related ventures
19:33 Overcoming challenges in sign installation
25:40 Insights into effective business management
28:40 Communication strategies for client satisfaction
38:26 Balancing work and personal life
40:32 Paul's approach to employee training and retention
43:30 Leveraging cross-industry ideas
47:10 Future plans for Sign Enterprise
51:30 Paul's perspective on emerging technologies in the industry
55:30 Advice for upcoming entrepreneurs in the sign industry
57:45 Closing thoughts and future directions for the podcast
##-##
Ready to systemize and scale your shop?
Start by creating your free account on the Better Sign Shop platform at https://my.bettersignshop.com/
##-##
Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.
Interested in being a guest on the show or have questions for our team? Reach out to us at hey@bettersignshop.com.
Transcripts are automatically generated with AI and may contain errors.
00:00:00Paul gardner: Learn how to build a better sign and prt shop from a few crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit. Conversations and advice on pricing, sales, marketing, [00:00:15] workflow, growth, and more. Your listening to The Better Sign Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter Kunis, Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.[00:00:30]
00:00:30Bryant Gillespie: Before we jump into the episode, I'd like to give a shout out to our sponsor, GCI Digital Printing Grand Format Printer to the trade GCI is not your average print shop. They pride themselves on providing you a fast [00:00:45] stress-free experience when outsourcing. There are no excuses. Mindset means no matter the job.
00:01:00hear more about their approach to business. Hop back into the archives to episode nine where the guys and I interview owner TJ be act about top tier customer experience. If you're looking for a high quality trade printer for banners, [00:01:15] mesh, core Plast and more, TJ and his crew will have your back.
00:01:30Shop podcast. I've got my co-host, as always, Peter Caris, the sign Shop Yoda. Pete, how are you sir?
00:01:39Paul gardner: Pretty good. I'm pretty good. Uh, no longer sick. Getting ready [00:01:45] to, uh, ring
00:01:47Peter Kourounis: in the holiday season here.
00:02:00soldier. Now, now hear me out
00:02:03Paul gardner: on this. Hear me out on
00:02:04Peter Kourounis: this because when you go down this rabbit hole,
00:02:08Paul gardner: it's a long journey. Okay?
00:02:11Peter Kourounis: Uh, with my sign shop experience and using all raw [00:02:15] materials, I've been able to build a seven foot wooden soldier for my kids, and they're absolutely in love with it.
00:02:30but this thing. Is huge. It's made out of all raw materials. There's nothing bought from, you know, a supplier I'm using like those, [00:02:45] uh, you know, like those banner tubes and the vinyl rolls for its arms and
00:02:49Paul gardner: legs and doing
00:02:51Peter Kourounis: it very sparingly, but it is coming out looking awesome.
00:02:55Bryant Gillespie: I'm I, I'm excited to see it now, dude. I, [00:03:00] I can imagine your kids are stoked for it. I'm using some of
00:03:03Peter Kourounis: my, uh, experience working with raspberry Pies and I, I got some of the Christmas music playing. I got, oh no, I got his arms gonna move a little bit. His eyes are gonna have LED [00:03:15] lights in it. It, I'm, I'm, I'm, like I said, you go down a deep, like I said, you can go down a deep rabbit hole and make like, uh, a very nice put together.
00:03:29Paul gardner: Soldier to the [00:03:30] point where it's like, man, can I sell this thing? Like, can, can, can
00:03:33Peter Kourounis: I make
00:03:33Bryant Gillespie: these? Don't do it. Don't
00:03:35Peter Kourounis: do. And can I make a business outta this? And, and, and in a lot of regards, that's a great segue into today's, uh, [00:03:45] episode here is what, and what we're gonna be talking about with our guests about like how you, how easy it is to take something
00:03:51Paul gardner: and make another business model out of it.
00:03:54Peter Kourounis: byproduct. Maybe this time of the year, I'm thinking about selling seven foot [00:04:00] wooden soldiers. Wooden
00:04:00Bryant Gillespie: soldiers. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good market. Maybe. Maybe that could be my new
00:04:06Peter Kourounis: franchise business. Who knows?
00:04:09Bryant Gillespie: I tried that once with cornhole boards. Like we built a set using our [00:04:15] flatbed printer, like we had some half inch birch.
00:04:30of having a client come in. They were like, holy crap, did you guys make these? We were like, yeah, we did.
00:04:45Um, they were smashing records in their business. They were like, Hey, I wanna order 35 sets of these for my guys. So being, you know, Hey, like the, the sign guys. We were, can you guys make those for us?
00:05:00sign shop turned into wood shop for like two weeks or a week. I can't remember how long it took us to produce those, but that's a, a lesson that I learned of, you know, just because it's fun on the surface doesn't mean it's necessarily profitable on the [00:05:15] back end.
00:05:16Paul gardner: Profitability, fun.
00:05:18Peter Kourounis: It all goes into it, right? I mean, I think I have a similar story. It wasn't quite cornhole boards. My, my ex-business partner, he wanted to make, uh, cutting boards, engraved, cutting boards, you [00:05:30] know, and I'm like, ah, pretty sure you can get that at like, in any store or online store. But it's amazing the raw materials that we use here in the sign industry with the tools that we have.
00:05:45revenue in
00:05:45Paul gardner: other ways? It could be, it could
00:05:49Peter Kourounis: be acrylic plaques, it could be cornhole boards, it could be wooden
00:05:55Bryant Gillespie: soldiers, wooden soldiers, sneeze guards from during the [00:06:00] pandemic, right? Oh
00:06:01Peter Kourounis: yeah. I mean, absolutely. How can I forget about that? How easy was it to like laser cut acrylic to make a.
00:06:09Paul gardner: Sneeze guards, uh, like face shields,
00:06:12Peter Kourounis: what, whatever, whatever it was in bulk. I [00:06:15] mean, you can really do a lot. And that's what we're gonna be talking about here today, right?
00:06:20Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. Without further ado, let's bring on our guest. Alright guys, we are back with today's guest, Paul Gardner of Sign Enterprise and like 35 other [00:06:30] businesses that, that I find fascinating.
00:06:35Paul gardner: to have you. Thanks for having me.
00:06:37Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. So you and I have, uh, chased each other to get you onto the podcast for a long time. [00:06:45] Um, really enjoyed all the conversations that we've had leading up to this. And like every time that we chat, you've started something new.
00:07:00Your story, give us the story of Sign Enterprise just for some context.
00:07:04Paul gardner: Sure. So, uh, this is actually busy season for me because all of my businesses are busy right now.
00:07:15I got into the sign business. It was, it was kind of a, uh, a hobby more than anything. I was, uh, I, I used to race go-karts when I was a kid. And then I graduated into racing, uh, cars. And if you know anything about the racing industry, you're [00:07:30] constantly pairing up stuff.
00:07:45sign shop and, uh, I would go in there and, you know, just try to make it as cheap as possible.
00:08:00ago. He, he retired, but he, uh, I bought him, I bought his company out later. But anyways, uh, I, I, I probably made it really hard on him, but I tried to design my own stuff.
00:08:15weed the vinyl. Just give me, give every, you know, I would try to make it as. Absolutely cheap as possible. And back then, you know, people weren't printing, they were airbrushing to get the effect, you know, that's what they were doing.
00:08:30was major labor
00:08:31Bryant Gillespie: intensive. Let me ask you one question before you continue. Did you ask him to sponsor you?
00:08:36Paul gardner: Yeah, I did a million times.
00:08:45
00:08:59Bryant Gillespie: yeah. [00:09:00] No, that's a awesome origin story, man.
00:09:02Paul gardner: it. That that's where it kind of started. And then, um, I was just looking for a, you know, a, a summer job. Uh, ended up working at a, uh, a transportation company. And that transportation company [00:09:15] was hiring a sign company from New York every year to come. They would to buy up a hundred trailers every, every summer.
00:09:30no idea what I was getting into because I'm thinking, okay, I've done race cars and go-karts. I can do this. Not thinking about the fact that these are 53 foot trailers, but the, and again, this is back before printers, you know, were relevant and [00:09:45] there wasn't before Air aggress.
00:10:00install a vinyl, but, um, I got really good at it and. I got out when I, when I finished college, my wife and I got married.
00:10:15working at six at night till six in the morning. I had 12 hour shift. And we live in Virginia. My wife works in DC at the time and she was leaving work by 6:00 AM not getting home till 6:00 PM And so I was like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna end up in a [00:10:30] divorce our first year 'cause we don't see each other, but like three times a month.
00:10:45have no idea how to start a business. And I looked at him, I go, your parents know all about starting businesses. Maybe they can help us because they ha owned a carpet business.
00:11:00home. And I ended up borrowing $5,000 and I bought a used plotter, um, and some equipment. And that's how I got my start. And so move forward, you know, 20 plus years since then, I've [00:11:15] acquired, um, six sign companies, um, companies that usually were struggling, having problems.
00:11:30me, you know, grow quickly. And then through the sign industry, just like we were speaking about before, it's like if you learn the sign industry, you can pretty much get into any industry.
00:11:45landscape company. We do a lot of entrance monument signs. And so we were hiring the Masons to come in and do all that work and we're doing the landscape and we were doing the whole package. So we were hiring and outsourcing that work.
00:12:00company. I'd been around for 25 years locally. I. The owner retired and, um, I took that company over. And then I'm really big into the lighting industry here recently, and the announcement hasn't been made yet, but I just bought, um, the largest permanent light, [00:12:15] uh, in, uh, company in, in the United States.
00:12:30anything about the Christmas light industry, it's really blown up the last few years.
00:12:37Bryant Gillespie: No, no. Short part of your own as well, right? Like
00:12:42Paul gardner: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's, [00:12:45] it's pretty fun. And it's, it's an intense business. It's a whole nother dynamic of, of people that you're dealing with, but it's the same end result, you know, it's like you get the same kind of baggage, you get the same kind of responses.
00:13:00It's obviously seasonal. Um, and then I also am in the landscape, uh, lighting business. So all that led me to this permanent light, uh, industry that I'm in now. And so now I'm, I'm, I'm, I bought 50% of a company that has been around for, uh, 11 years. [00:13:15] And, uh, the, the manufacturer's doing really well.
00:13:30equipment. And so I bought into the company specifically to push it to the, the sign industry. And, you know, the sign business has definitely opened up a whole, you know, avenue of opportunities for me.
00:13:45expanded the sign business along the way, and it's allowed me a lot of opportunities. I just, I, I embrace the opportunities I've had, I've had a lot more opportunities than I even speak of. But, you know, in the business, in the sign business, you work in business to business. So all you meet is business owners.
00:14:00are, are being consumed with ideas and so your mind just keeps running and my, my mind runs nonstop, so
00:14:06Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. Clearly, clearly. No. Yeah. And, and I can't wait to get into all of those things. Um, if we back up to talk about like, signed [00:14:15] enterprise, just just for a little bit, like, like roughly what's the, the size of the shop, what are you guys doing sales wise?
00:14:24Paul gardner: So we have, I don't know the exact count of people because we have three locations, but it's around 50, [00:14:30] um, 50 people, employees. Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. Um, as far as, uh, sales, our central location, which is our, our main location, we, we do between five and 10 million. Gotcha. Okay. So when all the sales come in, we'll be between five and 10.
00:14:45think this year we're gonna end up being around 7 million for the one location, so. Gotcha. As far as our, you know, as far as the way we work, so we have a central location, which is where I work out of, that's where we manufacture about 90% of our signage. We have [00:15:00] another location that really is just an office.
00:15:15manufacture install, and we have offices there and we have sales reps outta there. So we, we, we separate the businesses for different reasons, but they contribute all as one company and they're all under one umbrella.
00:15:27Bryant Gillespie: Gotcha. And, and like, what type of [00:15:30] projects are you guys doing? Like, you know, who are the clients that you work with? Um, you know, there's, there's obviously like various facets to the sign industry, so I just wanna clarify for the listeners out
00:15:42Paul gardner: there. So, when I first got into the industry, [00:15:45] honestly, my ideal client was the guy that wanted a cruising, a memory sticker on the back of his car, or the race car driver who wanted a free sponsorship, you know, just from decals.
00:16:00I, I enjoy the decal industry. I enjoy vinyl, I enjoy banners, I enjoy yard signs. There's a lot of money in that industry. But specifically in my area, what I noticed is there was, um, a lack of good, knowledgeable [00:16:15] professionals in the, uh, lighting part of the industry, uh, the electrical more specifically.
00:16:30see this take off in the sign industry. And I can remember specifically all the, the locals were using Neon and I can remember specifically talking to those guys and they all, you know, rejected the idea that LED would take over.
00:16:45I was like, you know, if I'm right on this, and based on the technology, you know, that I'm seeing advances in this industry, most of the time the old school sign guy gets stuck thinking he's right. And I'm like, it's probably the same thing in the lighting industry, even though at the time I know nothing about [00:17:00] lighting.
00:17:15or Shenzhen, you'll be consumed with manufacturers in the lighting industry.
00:17:30the lighting industry. And so I got, I got used and familiar with the terms early on that it, it, when people were manufacturing this locally and, and, and in the sign shops, I was very familiar with what they, they were [00:17:45] producing and what was good quality, what wasn't, because that really gave me an advantage in that part of the industry.
00:18:0012 years ago. So it was after I started the electrical. But, um, I mean, I guess 12 years is a long time, but, um, it's, it goes by so quick for me, it just seems like it was yesterday.
00:18:15we, we were, um, we, we were sitting at a table outside on this balcony and all these people were, and I was with a bunch of sign guys. Like, I just got invited to this impromptu dinner with a bunch of sign guys and I only knew like two or three of them.
00:18:30And, uh, we're sitting on this balcony and all these people are flooding in and I'm like, what's going on? And they were like, oh, there's gonna be a Snoop Dogg concert. So I actually was, I called my wife, I'm like, I'm in a Snoop Dogg concert. I'm literally, I'm like, that's not my, you know, that's not my, my, my style.
00:18:45was, it was kind of funny 'cause we were there for like two and a half hours at that table, but we literally had a front row seat, Snoop Doggs, like running underneath and us, that's where the, the stage was. Sure enough, I, I got the, the, the, the restaurant said, y'all are so lucky y'all get this table.
00:19:00And, but our party was so big, they had to give us the table. But during those conversations, listening to Snoop Dogg, it was hard. But we, listen, I, I listened intently. There was this guy, and I don't know him to this day, I can't remember his name, but I remember we were [00:19:15] exchanging and we were just sharing pricing, like where, what's your minimum pricing?
00:19:30hourly rates, on his man rates, everything. And I was just like, okay, well why is that? Because this guy lives in a very, you know, um, rural area.
00:19:45business an hour. And here I am overwhelmed by business opportunities. I'm thinking to myself that just doesn't make sense, right? And so when I told him that, he looked at me specifically and he said, Paul, you seem like a pretty smart guy.
00:20:00goes, I'm telling you right now, you could get double. For what you're producing, the knowledge you have. And I thought to myself, if this guy's right, then I'm really missing out. This is where the struggle is happening. So with without hesitation, I kid you not, I mean this is, [00:20:15] that was the lecture I got and that was like a weekend or whatever.
00:20:30also, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a business coach and I coach businesses and I tell them, it's all in our heads how often we believe that, you know, if, if we're delivering.
00:20:45expect. You should be able to raise your prices and there shouldn't be any pushback because if you are attracting those type of clients that demand that type of service, they're willing to pay for it.
00:21:00delivering a much better product than the competition. I knew that, like up here, I, I could tell, I was like, I'm confident what I'm delivering, but I wasn't confident.
00:21:07Bryant Gillespie: Well, you took pride in it, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we talked to so many owners that do, like, they take deep pride in what they do every single day.
00:21:15shows that it is just Yeah. Up here
00:21:17Paul gardner: though. Yeah. It's like, I mean, I, I want it to be the best, Brian, just to be able to deliver to my clients because I know what I would expect. Right? And so I just examined myself daily and I was like, what can I do better? What [00:21:30] can Paul Gardner do better to deliver?
00:21:45And she's like, what? I'm like across the board. And I said, we're gonna have a minimum rate.
00:22:00And I don't know what we were at the time. I wanna say we were only like $90, like $90, you know, something simple. And I said, we gotta have a two hour minimum on every job we do.
00:22:15myself, okay, I'm gonna sacrifice some business here. I'm gonna lose some business. But I can honestly look at both of you and say, I don't know of any business we ever lost. As a matter of fact. We started the, the, we started just pounding the pavement and getting more and more work.
00:22:30busy. I don't think if we did lose business, I noticed it because the compounding effect it was having, raising our prices, I was able to bring in more revenue. I was bringing in better people. I was bringing in better equipment. I was educating myself quicker. There was so many things that happened [00:22:45] along that journey of that price transition that I, I'd never looked back.
00:23:00an eye. And I know the type of service that we're delivering, the quality of service we're delivering is better than it was. Therefore I have every right to demand that type of price.
00:23:13Bryant Gillespie: As, as you had to. No, [00:23:15] I mean, that's a great point because it, like, obviously you do have to have that, that level of service that you're providing in order to do that. But like so many times we sell ourselves short of like, just like, oh, no way we could raise prices on this.
00:23:30market. And for a lot of owners, like that's not the case, you know? Mm-Hmm. It is just not the case. Like, would you, like, it sounds like that was a, like a pivotal moment in like your signed career. Like [00:23:45] would, would you say that's like the turning point for everything else to, to
00:23:48Paul gardner: come?
00:24:00we, we've constantly separated those companies. Over the years, and this, this is the last year that Elf Pros will fall under the umbrella. And so it'll go on its own here, uh, next 2024.
00:24:15where I've started a new business, now I, I, I look at the average market. I look at the average market, and I'm like, what is, what is, what is the industry asking for? What is the industry willing to pay? And I take all that information and I'm like, okay, [00:24:30] everything based on the averages.
00:24:45installer in the area. And, and we've increased our prices in the last four years.
00:25:00because it's very, that industry is, it's not as broad as the sign industry. There's only a certain type of applications, right? And so the pricing margins are very transparent and people put that stuff out there.
00:25:15expensive. And we understand that's not our type of clientele. But here's the thing, the type of service we're delivering and the experience that people get with that service is, is not even comparable. And we know that. We know the type of quality, the product that we're using.
00:25:30that a lot of the manufacturers of products that they're using are just outsourced overseas, which most of the LED products are. It's just, you gotta know the different things about diodes, chips, you gotta know different things about casings, the type of wiring you're using. And I know all that stuff.
00:25:45So. When I am delivering a product to my client, I'm guarantee 'em that this is the most premium product you can get your hands on right now when a lot of the guys, they don't know enough information to know the difference between that bulb and the next bulb. And so, yeah. Then on top of [00:26:00] that, the type of service we're giving them is exceptional.
00:26:15Christmas spirit growing and, and, and we do so many things. Like one of the things we do is every year I. We go back to the, um, to, to the customer's home a couple days before Christmas.
00:26:30uh, I don't know if you've heard of nothing, bunt cakes, but, uh, we do all their signage. So I made a deal with the owners and we, we do a little barter there. And so we deliver bunt cakes to all of our customers. So we deliver hundreds of bunk cakes, and of course [00:26:45] we have a mascot with the Elf Pros theme, and his name is Winky.
00:27:00online, whether it's in person. And I read this book years ago, it's called the, uh, um, the Experience Economy.
00:27:15that Di Walt Disney turned Disney World into. Yep. Yeah, it's like to make everything an experience. And so when you go to Walt, you know, when you go to Disney, anybody that's been the magic Kingdom, it's quite the experience, right?
00:27:30experience is grand and you're gonna enjoy yourself. And so we try to do the same thing within every industry I own. Yeah.
00:27:36Bryant Gillespie: And, and when you do that, like the price doesn't matter, right? Because No, it doesn't, you know, like I, I've taken my kids to Disney several times, and like my [00:27:45] wife and I have like, you know, obviously like it's an expensive proposition, like, you know, you know, going well into it.
00:28:00see like the look on your kids' faces or, or just have that, that experience as you mentioned, like, like the money doesn't matter at that point.
00:28:15on the Christmas light, you're, you're selling to consumers, you know, they, they want to, you know, impress their own families, impress the neighbors, you know, spread Christmas cheer, all of that. But like, how do you work some of that experience magic into the sign
00:28:28Paul gardner: industry?
00:28:30So that is the challenge, right? Because it's not the same. You're dealing with, you're dealing business to business. You're not dealing with the, the, you know, the homeowner who you get to see, you know, the joy on her face when you push the button. It's like, you know, we always, always think of [00:28:45] ourselves as like, um, what, what is it?
00:29:00because when we deliver the cakes, when we send the emails out, when we do the things on social media, I mean, on our, on our Elf Pros, um, uh, Facebook page, we're getting 50,000 engagements a week right now.
00:29:15a lot of, and that's local, by the way. That's a local engagement. So that's, that's a phenomenal amount of engagement in one week. Whereas in the sign business, I'm lucky if I get 50,000 engagements in a year, so Yeah. Right. It's like, okay, how do you, [00:29:30] how do you, yeah, you made a sign
00:29:31Bryant Gillespie: who,
00:29:33Paul gardner: yeah.
00:29:45can I create more of this experience factor in the sign industry?
00:30:00one company who's, you know, one of the more recognized companies in the industry, they, they, they sent us a lot of work and they, they recently told us, uh, one, one of the PMs called me and I guess he needed, he needed a favor.
00:30:15my number. He called me. He said, look, I really need a favor from you on, and your PM said y'all can't do it, so I'm hoping you'll help me. Someone told me to call you. So I'm talking to him and he goes, wow. He goes, I'm gonna be honest with you, I've been with this company for 32 years. And he goes, you have the highest rating.
00:30:30seen this high rating one time across the board with other sign companies. He said, we have a rating system and you, your company has the highest rating in our system. You can possibly get. He says, I've only seen it one other time in 32 years. So in my opinion, I'm like, okay, we're creating a great experience for [00:30:45] people by just communicating well, because I feel like that's what we do really well, is our communication factors.
00:31:00So my, my opinion is everything, every reaction should have a response. So everything that happens now needs, you know, we need to, we need to, whether it's a negative thing that happened or a positive thing, now we need to respond to that.
00:31:15so. When we have a, an exceptional install, everything goes exactly as planned. You know, we let the customer know, Hey, this was an exceptional install. This is a, everything happened just as planned. If things don't happen as planned, you know, we let 'em know. We let 'em know [00:31:30] that, hey, there were some, you know, barriers.
00:31:45don't know if a lot of your clientele is using that, but we use company Cam.
00:32:00It's, it's like we use it in all of our businesses, but that information is information that. The PM can instantly get updates on the job, send it to the customer, the customer's being told in real time how things are going on a job.
00:32:15customer really that we're speaking to might be in Texas, but their location might be here local. And so for them, that kind of feedback and that type of communication is, is unparalleled to most people in the industry. I'm not saying there's not other people using company cam, it's just the way [00:32:30] we use it, I think is, is is not the norm.
00:32:41Bryant Gillespie: I love to hear you say that because that, like, [00:32:45] communication is like one of the biggest fail points or break points or where just things fall apart that I've seen for a lot of shops that, that we've had on the podcast.
00:33:00uh, shop owners where things are just falling apart because of communication issues. Like, hey, we're, we're not passing the torch correctly to the next department or communicating back to the client. Um, but client communication being like the most prevalent one of like, Hey, [00:33:15] here's all the details of the project.
00:33:30kind of systems do you have guys have in place for that?
00:33:35Paul gardner: You know, like, so obviously. You know, uh, I would say aside from company Cam, I guess, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things we use. Um, I'll be honest with you, I'm not [00:33:45] even familiar with some of the apps that we're using now because there's some that we're using that have been implemented by the leadership here that I'm not, I don't even know how to use 'em.
00:34:00a communication with the customer through text, you know, and it constantly is giving them, you know, updates and it's o obviously at the end of the job, it's letting them know the job's done. It's communicating to them how well did we do.
00:34:15uh, people are more prone to, um, communicate more. Well. I say generally speaking, I'm not the best when it comes to texting according to my wife. So that's, so, so I'm more of a phone call type of guy. But I think the general [00:34:30] population is used to communicate and quickly and, and responding promptly with a text.
00:34:45is that we normally were communicating through email. Email. And to me that's a slow communication anyways because, you know, the person's gone for the day.
00:35:00was pick up the phone after I'm done with the job. Hey, your, your sign job's done. You know, take one picture, send it to 'em, you're good. Now there's this whole other system, right? There's a hundred pictures that go with that job.
00:35:15and I think that's, you know, some of the things that we've implemented over the years that have been probably different than maybe what the normal sign company is doing. Um, I know that some of the other softwares that we're using aren't even relevant to the sign industry.
00:35:30of the, some of the things that we're, we're using are kind of things that we would use in other industries, and we've merged 'em over into the industry here. The other thing that, you know, we, we like to do is we like to know [00:35:45] ourselves what our staff is doing on an hourly basis. Like we wanna know what's going on.
00:36:00have that. All that data is, uh, inputted by, uh, an an individual and it goes to the PMs and the PM can see, okay, did we allocate enough time for each of those jobs?
00:36:15at times, our estimator has this idea that a job's gonna take eight hours. It's a full day's worth of work, two crews, four men on the job. And then it turns out the job took 12 hours. Well, 12 hours, four times, four extra hours.
00:36:30whole other day's worth of work for a whole crew. And so you can lose a lot of money that way. And so one of the things that we constantly are doing is evaluating how we're pricing things and are our guys communicating to us. Because, you know, it, you guys have been signing industry [00:36:45] long enough to know it's like.
00:37:00the things that is on our contracts is we make sure this is very specific and they sign it, is that, hey, all this pricing is based on normal conditions.
00:37:15about hitting rock. We talk about things that you are gonna run into in the, in the case that you do run into 'em, that you already have that in there in your contract. So we do a lot of change orders, but that all, that, the change order is only effective if you communicate [00:37:30] upfront and all that language is in your contract.
00:37:35Peter Kourounis: I'd like to interject here for just a quick minute and, uh, ask a couple of questions because I. Ryan's been asking all of the
00:37:44Paul gardner: questions,
00:37:44Bryant Gillespie: dude. I, [00:37:45] yeah man, I, I was, I was waiting
00:37:47Paul gardner: for you, man, and I'm sitting here just with
00:37:50Peter Kourounis: waiting for an opportunity. So I have some, I have a couple of points here I'd like to ask about.
00:38:00opinion, you've gotten to five to, I think you said you're gonna do $7 million this year, so we'll use that number here. So you're a $7
00:38:06Paul gardner: million. That's the sign. That's the sign company, but our combine companies will probably do close to 10.
00:38:13Peter Kourounis: doing 7 million. [00:38:15] Right. And you just mentioned a really interesting piece here that comes up a lot on our calls and, and certainly a lot in my meetings with my clients is that. Do you find it that you are [00:38:30] not I one of two reasons. If you're questioning your pricing, I, I find it that it's one of two reasons.
00:38:40Paul gardner: your company? Is it
00:38:42Peter Kourounis: not charging the right rate [00:38:45] or not charging the right
00:38:46Paul gardner: amount of hours? Hmm. Well, let me put it to you this way. I might not be able to answer your question, but I might answer it in a different way.
00:39:00are specific to how many hours are you working on those jobs, but we do not price jobs based on hours. Okay? So let me give you an example. And I, I, I, I've preached just to a lot of sign guys. [00:39:15] I know. So when you're doing work for other sign companies, they wanna know your hourly rate.
00:39:30They make us document, so they have their own system. We have to, when we get to the job site, and they, and this is tracked, I mean, they got GPS capability, they'll know where there, they'll know when we leave.
00:39:45system, we're on site, we have to then fill out their own spreadsheet. That's different than ours. Have to dot, you know, fill in all the dotted lines. And then when we leave, we have to clock out. So we, we red strap and we leave the site. [00:40:00] They want us to only use the hours that we worked for that job to be, to be billed.
00:40:15they're probably first or second largest client. I mean, they're, they're up there. So this one client required this. So just to give you a backstory on this, I bought, I bought a company a few years ago that had been around for a hundred years [00:40:30] and that was their biggest client.
00:40:45mean, if you go outside, all of our trucks are 2017 or newer. You know, they're all five years old or younger, and we have good equipment.
00:41:00training I feel that the industry can allow. And so when our guys go out, I'm confident that they're gonna do it in a fraction of the time than most saw installers. So why should I be penalized knowing that I'm gonna get it done in a [00:41:15] fraction of the time because I'm providing the better equipment?
00:41:30it's just a random store owner who has lights out, we give 'em a minimum charge and we tell 'em it's a two hour minimum rate.
00:41:45we're pricing out on what the value of that job is worth to us. So a lot of the jobs, if you were to do it hourly, you would only get paid like 600 bucks, but we're getting paid 1800 and it's just because we're doing it in three hours versus, you know, a whole day.[00:42:00]
00:42:15seeing, but I'm seeing guys are still doing everything based on the hour.
00:42:20Peter Kourounis: I think it's very normal to be reliant on time and materials. It's a, it's a, there is a formula, there is a calculation to how to become profitable. I think [00:42:30] for my question here, it was more, you, you're not a $500,000 a year company. You're not a million dollar a year sign company.
00:42:45operation where they're struggling like, what is, why am I working my butt off here? And, and. At the end of the day, I have nothing to show for it other than my bills being paid. And, um, I basically bought myself a job.
00:43:00messages here of, well, maybe you're not charging enough and, or maybe you're not charging enough hours or you're undervaluing how long projects are going to take. It is interesting to hear how a shop, like yours is saying, I'm pricing based off of internal value. Uh, I [00:43:15] would say that that's not the normal.
00:43:27Paul gardner: that this
00:43:28Peter Kourounis: sign's gonna last you 20 [00:43:30] years. So it's, I'm putting a crazy price on this project because that's what it's worth to you, the customer.
00:43:45here. Uh, and you alluded to this. Sign doing a change order and, and having that ability
00:43:53Paul gardner: of pivoting,
00:43:54Peter Kourounis: uh, if the job went outside the boundaries of a normal, [00:44:00] uh, scope of work.
00:44:01Paul gardner: Now, that
00:44:03Peter Kourounis: is hard to do, right? I would say that that's hard to do if you've never mentioned it before. The the, the job commenced, right? If you're mentioning it midway through or even after the job is [00:44:15] over, it's a hard sell. So what are you doing in the beginning to communicate that to your customer on, you know, if this happens, it's gonna be this price.
00:44:30is your estimate and it's estimated it could be this way, but if it doesn't, it could be X, Y, and Z. And how do you navigate
00:44:37Paul gardner: those waters? So I think the biggest thing is the upfront contract is we, we [00:44:45] emphasize the details. In the bottom and we make them assignment.
00:45:00digging a hole, if we're gonna run into rock, if we're gonna run into boulders, if we're gonna run into, if some type of obstructive device that our equipment won't dig through, then we're gonna have a problem as, as a matter of fact, recently we were in the [00:45:15] mountains of Virginia and we were digging, and we didn't even make it two inches and we're hitting like a boulder and it ended up costing us, our cost was $16,000 to drill through that, that rock, original cost for that to the [00:45:30] customer was $3,500 to drill that hole and put the foundation in.
00:45:45like the other thing that you run across more often than not is, obviously most of the surveys, and a lot of times we're not surveying some of these jobs because we're getting 20 locations at a time.
00:46:00inside of the office space 'cause they don't want us disrupting their, their work at the time. So we might pull out a drop ceiling tile or something just to see what's behind there, but we still don't know exactly what's behind that wall.
00:46:15know, o obstacles on channel letter jobs where you can't necessarily just throw the whip in and pull it through the wall. There's, there's. I beams in the way. There's, you know, there's separations of, of, of, of roofs and, [00:46:30] and, and, and, and, uh, the, the office space.
00:46:45communicate to the PM immediately when they realize this. The first thing our guys are supposed to do is go inside and start drilling and one guy's on the inside, one guy's on the outside and see what we're up against.
00:47:00normally we're not charging a lot more, you know, it might be an extra two hours worth of work. Nine out of 10 times, you're not gonna have disruption in the job because of that. There are a few instances, a few times a year where someone's like, well, we don't have.
00:47:15the PO is what it is. We gave you our full budget on that. We don't have any room. We've gotta go back to the client. It's gonna take a little bit. So then we give 'em an option. Well, if we have to leave the job site and come back, it's even gonna cost an extra 600 bucks on top of that, or whatever the case may be.
00:47:30all of a sudden that changes the conversation. They were like, okay, you know what? We're gonna just accept the responsibility on this. Go ahead and do it. And so I can think of very few instances where we've had to leave the job site. Most of the time they're going to pay for it because they're going to have much, you [00:47:45] know, much more coming to them.
00:47:51Bryant Gillespie: no, that's, that's great. Hey, like to me, like the story here is just like, you guys are way more prepared than the average shop for [00:48:00] all scenarios. Like, we've got a communication plan in place. For anything. Uh, basically like, hey, if, if somebody loses a shoelace on the job or like, hey, like, like we've, we've got a, an action plan
00:48:14Paul gardner: for it.[00:48:15]
00:48:30a, a truck, you know, we've gotta have a system for that.
00:48:45ideas compliment the sign industry. I would say they actually would be better in the sign industry than the current industry they're in.
00:49:00Allowed for me to do things quicker and easier and cheaper in the sign industry. And so I think it's, you know, I don't know, maybe I, being a serial entrepreneur can have, its, it, its, its cons too.
00:49:15exposed to a lot of different ideas from different worlds. And those worlds might not even have any relevance to the sign industry. It just turns out most of what I'm in is related to the sign industry. 'cause I'm in lighting or manufacturing of some sort.[00:49:30]
00:49:45bad thing, by the way. I think it's a great thing you guys are doing.
00:50:00lot of my intellect and my knowledge. 'cause I'm definitely, I'm as blue collar as they come.
00:50:15implementing systems for everything. Yeah. So
00:50:17Bryant Gillespie: problem solving. Yeah. Huge thing. Like, you know, we've got probably just a few minutes remaining.
00:50:30look at 'em and when you describe them, they all compliment each other very well. And, and like, the big question that I had coming into it was, was this in, was that intentional? Like, did you do that by design or was it just like a, like a Bob Ross like happy accident [00:50:45] type
00:50:45Paul gardner: of thing?
00:51:00how to run a business. I, I was very passionate about at the time, vinyl graphics. I, I mean, it sounds so simple, not so complex, but at the time it was right, because vinyl was still kind of a newer thing too, you know, in, in [00:51:15] the nineties.
00:51:30about the advances in technology. And it's an interesting story.
00:51:45airbrushing, and I'm sure you guys have seen those old methods where the guys would airbrush the vinyl first, then go cut it, and you had to align everything perfectly.
00:52:00I was passionate about it. And then when I became, I, I guess, a successful business owner in the sign industry, I figured some things out that I was like, you know what? I enjoy building something from nothing to something I.
00:52:15started some other companies and then I saw some struggling businesses and I had some rapport with some of the owners of those businesses. So they had reached out to me, what are you doing that I'm not doing? And next thing you know, I'm buying those companies out. And when I saw the things they weren't doing, [00:52:30] it really shocked me.
00:52:45so I have a no smoking policy at at work. That sounds really like that's going out on a limb in the sign industry.
00:53:00the reality is I don't, I mean, I have a lot of smokers that work here, right? I mean, I would say probably a third of the staff probably smokes. Um, I don't know who all of 'em are, but I know who a few of 'em are.
00:53:15distracting from the things that need to get done during the day. And it wasn't a professional outlook. We were actually at complaints at times where the installers were going out on job sites and leaving the cigarette butts. And, you know, it's just, I'm unprofessional and I couldn't, I, I really couldn't control it [00:53:30] because I was saying, guys, this is a bad business practice.
00:53:45couldn't do this. And when I looked into a lot of big businesses to it, as a matter of fact, the federal government does it. So, you know, they have no smoking policies, you know, and so what I implement it is that, hey, is while you're on the clock, while you're driving our trucks, while you're on job sites, [00:54:00] while you're in our facilities, you're not allowed to smoke on your breaks and designated areas.
00:54:15work around guys that are just passionate about this business, love this business, and want to get something done.
00:54:30magnet to my company. And so we attracted really good, you know, um, employees. And on top of that, we attracted people outside of the industry.
00:54:45don't always look within the industry. I did that for so long and that was the kryptonite that I didn't realize was like hindering me from growing because I was bringing in someone with bad habits.
00:55:00outside. There might be good people out there that are worth hiring and can learn just about anything we do. So I would definitely suggest that. Going back to your, your, your conversation with me earlier, Peter, is I would have a hard look at the [00:55:15] pricing that most people are looking at and are they looking at it as like, this is what fast times is charging, this is what Joe signs.
00:55:30doing on a daily basis to put out a good product? Right. Or they, or do they really understand the, what it costs to do business? Because if they're just looking at the averages and everyone calls fast science because they're like the model, right?
00:55:45huge, uh, uh, platform to work off of when it comes to average pricing. But the reality is I'm probably not gonna compete with them in certain areas when it comes to pricing. And so I don't use them as my model for pricing. I wanna deliver a [00:56:00] particular product to a particular client, and I wanna make sure I understand my cost to do that.
00:56:15like, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It's 50% won't get you anywhere, so, no. Yeah, I
00:56:21Bryant Gillespie: love that. Um, and because it, it, you know, when you think about it, when it boils down to it, the same product, the same sign to a different client holds a [00:56:30] different value.
00:56:45You know, are you dealing with Joe's Pizza down the street that has one location, or are you dealing with a, like a national chain of pizza shops?
00:56:56Paul gardner: I, I'll tell you too, that something that really helped me [00:57:00] is when I was doing a job. For a larger corporation. They sent me the sign package, so it was a modeled sign package that every location I had to do. And I asked specifically, I said, what is your budget for this?
00:57:15told me what corporate's budget guidelines are for those signs. I was blown away. It was actually the opposite of what you would think. It was much higher than what I would've originally priced it at. Then I realized I was selling myself short. I, that was like the a [00:57:30] moment for me where I was like, wow, if they're doing this all over the country, then how am I selling myself this short when I live in an area where I know is growing and can afford it?
00:57:45cost to really do business too, because all this time I was just average pricing and I was like, obviously I'm putting a lot more emphasis on the quality of the product. I'm delivering a better product. But yeah, I'm pricing like the guys down the street.
00:58:00business.
00:58:01Bryant Gillespie: Well, uh, I think we're about at time. I, I don't wanna keep you, Paul. I know you're super busy. I would love to do this again sometime soon, man, because it like, ah, I feel like we could chat for days about it. Yeah. Um, what's, Hey, one [00:58:15] question that we always ask everybody to kind of wrap things up, like, what's, what's the future for you, for your business?
00:58:27Paul gardner: Well, I have six kids, [00:58:30] so my goal, my goal right now is to get them out of school and, you know, starting their own careers. And, um, you know, my focus right now isn't on retirement or what to do, you know, uh, 20 years from now.
00:58:45focus really is to just continue to build the businesses so they can run themselves. I, I, I'm very blessed. I don't have to go into the sign shop. I do it because I love going into the sign shop. I, I, it took me years to figure out the model of allowing myself to not be the guy that had to be there.[00:59:00]
00:59:15believe you, you, you've owned your own company yourself and you know, you guys know all too well how you can be a slave to the business.
00:59:30the suicide rate is higher for business owners than it is for an average employee. The divorce rate is higher, and there, there's a reason for that. And it's because we become so attached to the business and, you know, we're all, we all as, as, as men, we wanna [00:59:45] provide for our families.
01:00:00when you're, you think when you're at work, you know, at eight o'clock, nine o'clock, 10 o'clock, midnight, and I, I'm not gonna ask 'cause I already know the answer.
01:00:15did that because I didn't know what I didn't know. And it was just simple little things. I had to implement changes within my own business. It was all self-inflicted. The reason I was staying at work after five o'clock and when I made my priority, i, [01:00:30] i time blocked.
01:00:45hour earlier, if you've gotta force yourself to leave an hour earlier, whatever you've gotta do, start time blocking your time for your family.
01:01:00Disney, when you know you're leaving the next week for a vacation, you're able to get a lot more work done that week. Mm-Hmm. Because, you know, you don't wanna have to deal with it on vacation. Well, you just gotta learn how to do that on a weekly basis.
01:01:15attribute the majority of my time to my family? And so that's, that's what I would encourage anyone to do. That's what I've done. That, that has allowed me to open these other businesses and continue to do that. But I'm never, I'm never at a point where I've become complacent and [01:01:30] say, oh, I figured it out.
01:01:45of my week. So that's all it takes.
01:01:48Peter Kourounis: do what we do. Even if it you, you're probably not the average viewer. The average listener is not gonna sit here and listen to an hour worth of knowledge they might grasp. A, a nugget here or two. [01:02:00] And, and, and that's why I do it because I, I come away with every one of these episodes and, and, and I, and I've learned here something here today.
01:02:09Bryant Gillespie: seen Peter's notes, man. They're like, if you are, if each episode after he is done,
01:02:13Peter Kourounis: if you are listening [01:02:15] to this and, and you're thinking like, how do, how do I grow myself to a five, $10 million company? You probably could learn a lot from just listening to what you've discussed here today, Paul.
01:02:30Uh, I, I think we should definitely have you on again and, and, and let's talk some more about some of these businesses that you have. Maybe you'll be in another business by then, who knows. But, uh, happy to have you on here and thanks for jumping on our, uh, on the Better [01:02:45] Sign Shot podcast here.
01:02:47Paul gardner: Yeah, well, I appreciate it. I appreciate what you guys do. Keep, keep doing it. And, uh, I, I wish you the best. When's the,
01:02:54Bryant Gillespie: when's the announcement on the lighting company?
01:02:56Paul gardner: So before ISA. Okay, so before INA. [01:03:00] Yeah, for sure. So are you guys gonna be there?
01:03:02Bryant Gillespie: That's the plan. Okay. Well hopefully we'll, but definitely keep us on the loop on that.
01:03:10Paul gardner: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. It's, it's gonna, it's gonna be good. I can tell you this, I've only been doing [01:03:15] that for a little period of time here, and it is a money maker for sign guys. I mean, really, truly, I'm not just saying that because I'm about to push the product. It, it, it is something that sign guys can do in their sleep.
01:03:28Bryant Gillespie: I look forward to it. [01:03:30] Paul, thanks for coming on, man. Alright guys. Fountain of knowledge. Super excited. We could do
01:03:33Paul gardner: this. Yeah. See you. Thank you very much. All right, bye-Bye. Take
01:03:35Bryant Gillespie: care, man. Alright guys, that's the episode. Wow, what a doozy. Um, I, I feel like we could have probably talked to Paul for like three days at a time here, [01:03:45] but, uh, Pete, rapid fire takeaways.
01:03:49Peter Kourounis: Well, I mean, let's talk about the obvious one. The obvious one being how easy it is to get into the lighting business. I'm not too familiar with this area, but as somebody who has taken my [01:04:00] service, my sign service vehicles and used them to hang my own Christmas lights, I mean, like, yeah, if you could make a business out of that, uh, that sounds phenomenal.
01:04:15know, it is a totally different business model and I would've liked to have heard a little bit more, come to think of it on, you know, how he structures that business versus his sign business. You know, how different those worlds could be.
01:04:30you buy the supply, you use your truck, you put on another shirt, you go outside and you hang some lights on people's, on people's houses, and then you gotta go and take those lights down. I think that that's part of the model too. If I had to guess, it's a, it's not just installing, [01:04:45] it's removing.
01:05:00service area and start making some money. Yeah.
01:05:03Bryant Gillespie: Yeah. It's just super excited about that side of it, or, yeah.
01:05:15guy imparted the wisdom on me. I need to double my prices. Like, let's not waste time on it. Like I, I go back and double my prices. Right. Like, for me, I, I think like increasing your pricing.
01:05:30that we weren't like, don't. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, Hey, you need to increase your prices or you should increase your prices. Uh, and what was that? I don't think I've ever given that advice. Like, no, you need to lower your prices because you're too high. Not once.[01:05:45]
01:05:47Peter Kourounis: I don't think I. Say, I think I could say the same, you know, maybe you'll deal with a client that's, or a shop owner that's 10% lower than they should be, 15% lower than they should be, but double. I mean, [01:06:00] that takes a lot of, that takes a lot of guts. It also takes a lot of self-awareness. Like he seemed pretty confident in the quality of his work, you know?
01:06:15top paying sign shop in the area, so he only hires the best, you know, and that, that is interesting. That is interesting. If you're gonna be that top paying guy, you gotta produce the best, but you also gotta charge the, the most.
01:06:30that, uh, I would love to ask him on our, on our next time. But he was a great guest, a great entrepreneur, a great, uh, sign shop owner. And, uh, I think a lot of our shop listeners here can, can learn from, from Paul [01:06:45] and, and what we've discussed here today. All right,
01:06:47Bryant Gillespie: let's, let's take it out guys.
01:07:00We have a Facebook group. Uh, there'll be a URL somewhere in the description, like it is free for owners and leadership of sign companies.
01:07:15all these things we talk about on the podcast, except you could talk about your own business. And that's it. Um, we look forward to seeing you on the next episode. So that's the episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'd like to [01:07:30] give one final shout out to our sponsor, GCI Digital Printing Grand Format Printer to the trade GCI is not your average print shop.
01:07:45outsourcing. They're no excuses. Mindset means no matter the job, they'll have it done every time. No other vendor will go to the links that GCI does to ensure you are a satisfied customer. To hear more about their approach to [01:08:00] business, hop back into the archives to episode nine where the guys and I interview owner TJ B Act about top tier customer experience.
01:08:15TJ and his crew were small, GCI does them all. Check them out@printgci.com. If you
01:08:23Paul gardner: liked this episode, make sure you hit subscribe to get all the latest episodes and check out our website, better [01:08:30] sign shop.com. Get free resources and helpful tools on growing your shop.